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From: Pieter Praet <pieter@praet.org>\r
To: Jani Nikula <jani@nikula.org>,\r
        Jameson Graef Rollins <jrollins@finestructure.net>,\r
        Xavier Maillard <xma@gnu.org>, Austin Clements <amdragon@MIT.EDU>\r
Subject: Re: [PATCH 3/4] config: only set search.exclude_tags to "deleted;\r
 spam;  " during setup\r
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Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 01:42:46 +0100\r
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\r
On Mon, 23 Jan 2012 08:31:23 +0000, Jani Nikula <jani@nikula.org> wrote:\r
> On Mon, 23 Jan 2012 09:03:42 +0100, Pieter Praet <pieter@praet.org> wrote:\r
> > On Mon, 23 Jan 2012 07:22:25 +0000, Jani Nikula <jani@nikula.org> wrote:\r
> > > On Mon, 23 Jan 2012 06:05:27 +0100, Pieter Praet <pieter@praet.org> w=\r
rote:\r
> > > > On Sun, 22 Jan 2012 14:53:41 -0800, Jameson Graef Rollins <jrollins=\r
@finestructure.net> wrote:\r
> > > > > On Sun, 22 Jan 2012 23:14:13 +0100, Xavier Maillard <xavier@maill=\r
ard.im> wrote:\r
> > > > > >=20\r
> > > > > > On Thu, 19 Jan 2012 20:19:03 +0100, Pieter Praet <pieter@praet.=\r
org> wrote:\r
> > > > > > > If the 'search.exclude_tags' option is missing from the confi=\r
g file,\r
> > > > > > > its value is automatically set to "deleted;spam;".  Taking Po=\r
LS/DWIM\r
> > > > > > > into account, this should probably only happen during setup.\r
> > > > > > >=20\r
> > > > > > > This patch is actually Austin Clements' work:\r
> > > > > > >   id:"20120117203211.GQ16740@mit.edu"\r
> > > > > >=20\r
> > > > > > I do not think this is a sane default. As I told it in another =\r
post. I\r
> > > > > > do not expect notmuch to skew my search queries not that I spec=\r
ifically\r
> > > > > > asked.\r
> > > > >=20\r
> > > > > Hi, Xavier.  Do you currently mark things as "deleted" or "spam"?=\r
  If\r
> > > > > not, this would have no affect on your search results.  If you do=\r
, do\r
> > > > > you currently expect those messages to show up in searches?  If s=\r
o, why\r
> > > > > did you mark them as "deleted" or "spam" to begin with?\r
> > > > >=20\r
> > > > > I agree with your point in principle (ie. I don't generally want =\r
my\r
> > > > > searches tampered with behind the scenes) but the issue here is a=\r
bout\r
> > > > > messages that have been explicitly tagged as a form of "trash".  =\r
Trash\r
> > > > > is by it's nature something you're trying to get rid of.  If you =\r
wanted\r
> > > > > to find something in the future, why would you put it in the tras=\r
h in\r
> > > > > the first place?\r
> > > > >=20\r
> > > >=20\r
> > > > You definitely have a point, but then again, who are we to assume t=\r
hat\r
> > > > the terms "deleted" and "spam" have the *exact* same meaning for\r
> > > > everyone?  (also see id:"8739bbo0br.fsf@praet.org")\r
> > >=20\r
> > > "deleted" used to be a tag recognized by notmuch, and it used to sync=\r
 to\r
> > > the T (trashed) maildir flag. Even if notmuch won't delete any of your\r
> > > mails now, I don't think you should use "deleted" on messages you want\r
> > > to see again. Please let's not split hairs about this.\r
> > >=20\r
> >=20\r
> > Agreed, but it might be nice to make a clear distinction between\r
> > concepts and the actual tags mapped to them.  I'm not suggestion we\r
> > redefine the term "deleted", but from an internationalization\r
> > standpoint, we shouldn't prevent users from mapping e.g. "verwijderd",\r
> > "supprim=C3=A9", "gel=C3=B6scht", ... to the concept "deleted".\r
> >=20\r
> > > There really should be a definitive list of tags that are special to\r
> > > lib/cli/emacs (like "inbox", "unread", "deleted", ...), or are\r
> > > recommended for specific purposes (like "new" as an intermediate tag\r
> > > before more sophisticated tagging), to avoid prolonged discussions li=\r
ke\r
> > > this.\r
> > >=20\r
> >=20\r
> > A list of recommended tags would definitely be nice, as long as they\r
> > remain recommendations (as opposed to obligations), especially since\r
> > there's really no reason to designate certain tags as being "special".\r
>=20\r
> Whether there's reason or not, certain tags are special, for a fact, and\r
> they are not just recommendations. [...]\r
\r
My mistake.  Thanks for the correction!\r
\r
\r
> [...] Perhaps one day someone will\r
> contribute patches to make them configurable, and separate the concepts\r
> from the actual tags, but in the mean time it will be easier to just\r
> document them for what they are.\r
>=20\r
\r
Agreed.\r
\r
\r
> BR,\r
> Jani.\r
\r
\r
Peace\r
\r
--=20\r
Pieter\r