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+ Sun, 22 Jan 2012 23:37:36 -0800 (PST)\r
+From: Pieter Praet <pieter@praet.org>\r
+To: Jameson Graef Rollins <jrollins@finestructure.net>,\r
+ Xavier Maillard <xma@gnu.org>, Austin Clements <amdragon@MIT.EDU>\r
+Subject: Re: [PATCH 3/4] config: only set search.exclude_tags to "deleted;\r
+ spam; " during setup\r
+In-Reply-To: <87y5sz0ypj.fsf@servo.finestructure.net>\r
+References: <1326586654-16840-3-git-send-email-amdragon@mit.edu>\r
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+Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 08:35:42 +0100\r
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+\r
+On Sun, 22 Jan 2012 21:34:00 -0800, Jameson Graef Rollins <jrollins@finestr=\r
+ucture.net> wrote:\r
+> On Mon, 23 Jan 2012 06:05:27 +0100, Pieter Praet <pieter@praet.org> wrote:\r
+> > You definitely have a point, but then again, who are we to assume that\r
+> > the terms "deleted" and "spam" have the *exact* same meaning for\r
+> > everyone? (also see id:"8739bbo0br.fsf@praet.org")\r
+>=20\r
+> Hrm. I'm not sure I buy this. Words already have meanings. If we're\r
+> going to start down a rabbit hole where we have to assume that users are\r
+> making up crazy alternate meanings for words, we're going to run into a\r
+> lot of problems.\r
+>=20\r
+\r
+True, but we're talking about tags here. Flexibility is their raison\r
+d'=C3=AAtre. If we're going to impose semi-arbitrary limitations, we do aw=\r
+ay\r
+with alot of the benefits we were looking for in the first place.\r
+\r
+> Notmuch, or at least the emacs interface, already assumes a specific\r
+> meaning for certain terms, like most notably "inbox". Given that we're\r
+> dealing with english here, I think we have to assume common usage\r
+> meanings for any of the words we're using to describe anything.\r
+>=20\r
+\r
+Actually, we're only a small step away from being free to use whatever\r
+tag(s) we want for this. The term "inbox" is hardcoded in only 4\r
+places, all of which are trivial to fix:\r
+\r
+- @ binary\r
+ - `notmuch_config_open', where it's only used as a fallback when\r
+ 'new.tags' isn't set (and reused to suggest a default value for\r
+ 'new.tags' when running setup).\r
+\r
+- @ Emacs UI\r
+ - `notmuch-saved-searches' (the function), where it's only used as\r
+ a fallback when `notmuch-saved-searches' (the var) isn't set.\r
+ - `notmuch-search-archive-thread'\r
+ - `notmuch-show-archive-thread-internal'\r
+\r
+> This argument breaks a little in regards to "delete" since we're not\r
+> actually deleting anything in the sense of rm'ing it form the\r
+> filesystem, so we're already changing the meaning a bit. But see below.\r
+>=20\r
+\r
+[...]\r
+\r
+> > IMHO, this is one of those options that should remain disabled until\r
+> > *explicitly* set by the user.\r
+>=20\r
+> Ok, but then we're back to the incredibly prolonged discussion we've\r
+> been having about adding "delete" keys. If we disable this by default,\r
+> but add "delete" keys, the user might be in for a different surprise if\r
+> "deleted" messages keep showing up in searches.\r
+>=20\r
+> Basically we have two options as I see it:\r
+>=20\r
+> - add keys bindings to add "deleted" tags, and then *also* exclude\r
+> "tag:deleted" by default.\r
+>=20\r
+> - don't exclude anything by default, but then don't add any special keys\r
+> to handle "deleted" tags.\r
+>=20\r
+\r
+Adding a key to "delete" messages doesn't necessarily have to mean that\r
+the tag it adds should be hardcoded to "deleted".\r
+\r
+For example, our config file could contain something like this:\r
+\r
+ #+begin_src conf\r
+ [new]\r
+ tags=3Dunread;inbox;\r
+\r
+ [tag]\r
+ deleted=3Ddeleted;-inbox;\r
+ archive=3D-inbox;\r
+\r
+ [search]\r
+ exclude_tags=3Ddeleted;spam;\r
+ #+end_src\r
+\r
+ (where all entries under the [tag] section could be used as\r
+ aliases for "complex" tagging operations)\r
+\r
+... and then we could "delete" messages using something like:\r
+\r
+ #+begin_src emacs-lisp\r
+ (define-key notmuch-show-mode-map "d"\r
+ (lambda()\r
+ (interactive)\r
+ (notmuch-show-mod-tags\r
+ (split-string\r
+ (notmuch-config-get "tag.deleted") "\n"))\r
+ (notmuch-show-next-open-message)))\r
+ #+end_src\r
+\r
+ (`notmuch-show-mod-tags' doesn't exist, of course, but see\r
+ `notmuch-message-mark-replied' for a good example of how\r
+ it could be work...)\r
+\r
+> There seemed to be a consensus forming that we in fact did want to add\r
+> the "deleted" key bindings. [...]\r
+\r
++1.\r
+\r
+> [...] If we do that, then I think we should\r
+> generate the config file to exclude "deleted" tags by default.\r
+>=20\r
+> jamie.\r
+>=20\r
+> PS: when I say "exclude tags by default" I actually mean that the\r
+> setting should be added to the config file upon (re)generation. Nothing\r
+> should be excluded if nothing is set in the config file.\r
+\r
+Exactly! This is actually the *only* reason I involved myself with this\r
+whole conversation in the first place :)\r
+\r
+\r
+Peace\r
+\r
+--=20\r
+Pieter\r
projects / notmuch-archives.git / commitdiff