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30 id 1VSV9b-0003R0-LP; Sat, 05 Oct 2013 17:56:31 +0100
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31 From: Mark Walters <markwalters1009@gmail.com>
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32 To: Austin Clements <amdragon@MIT.EDU>
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33 Subject: Re: Emacs: how to remove "unread" tag while reading emails
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34 In-Reply-To: <20131005162202.GJ21611@mit.edu>
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35 References: <87hadi0xse.fsf@boo.workgroup> <87pprk3whs.fsf@qmul.ac.uk>
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36 <20131005162202.GJ21611@mit.edu>
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73 On Sat, 05 Oct 2013, Austin Clements <amdragon@MIT.EDU> wrote:
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76 > One of the problems with the current approach, which most of these
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77 > options share, is that there's no feedback. For example, when I enter
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78 > a thread, I have no idea if the first message was unread or not. I'd
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79 > like a solution that either naturally doesn't have this problem, that
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80 > visually indicates that a message *was* unread, or that delays all
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81 > unread marking until you leave the thread (possibly combined with a
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82 > visual indication of what will be marked unread). Bonus points if
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83 > it's easy to adjust what happens, such as saying "keep everything
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84 > unread" or "keep everything unread except this one".
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86 I like the idea of not doing the update until you actually leave the
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89 > To this end, here are my two proposals:
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91 > A1) Mark whole thread read when you leave it (via q, X, A or friends)
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92 > and provide a binding to leave a thread without marking it read (C-x k
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93 > would do, but we should provide an explicit one; perhaps C-u prefixing
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94 > other "leave" bindings? For once, C-u is easy to remember because u
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95 > is the first letter of unread).
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97 > A2) Like A1, but mark only messages up to and containing point when
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98 > you leave a thread.
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100 I like A2 but would like to check exactly what you meant: would this
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101 only mark open messages (ie not collapsed messages) up to point?
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103 I also like the prefix argument for q etc idea but I have a plausible
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104 variation: ctrl-u q (etc) could say "mark 4 messages unread y/N?" so you
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105 could easily see what it would do (but default to not doing it). I am
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106 imagining not updating read/unread as the less common case. I guess if
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107 we provide functions for each case it is easy for a user to configure.
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109 (Actually is it easy for a user to configure how prefix arguments work?)
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111 The only time in my use this would do the wrong thing is if I open all
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112 messages with M-Ret
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114 I think this also simplifies the mark-read code quite substantially
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125 > In either case, I'd like an echo message when I leave the thread
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126 > telling me what happened ("Thread marked as read", "First 3 messages
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127 > marked as read; thread archived", etc.). These would blend especially
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128 > well with undo, because they would bundle together all read marking
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129 > into a single action that would make sense to undo ("Thread marked as
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130 > read [C-/ to undo]").
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133 > Both options are highly predictable and easy to understand. They
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134 > don't lose information about which messages were unread when you
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135 > entered a thread. And they're easy to adjust (you can always -unread
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136 > a message manually and then C-u q or whatever to leave without
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137 > touching anything else).
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139 > Quoth Mark Walters on Oct 05 at 10:19 am:
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143 >> I agree that the unread tag does not work well. There are some instances
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144 >> which I would class as plain bugs (notmuch-show-next-message which is
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145 >> bound to N marks the new message read even if it is collapsed) and
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146 >> other instances where it is not clear what the correct behaviour should
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149 >> I have messed around a bit and there seem to be a lot of possible
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150 >> variants and I don't know whether any would have any consensus.
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152 >> One clear divide is whether we should only mark "visited messages" (ie
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153 >> ones reached using space, n,N,p,P etc in the current bindings) or we
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154 >> should also make messages seen by scrolling past (eg with page down).
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156 >> Anyway here is a list of some possibilities. In all cases I assume we do
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157 >> not mark any collapsed message read.
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159 >> 1) Mark a message read when we visit it.
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160 >> 2) Mark a message read when we visit it and the leave it with a "visit
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161 >> move" (eg n for next message)
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163 >> 3) Mark a message read if we see the start of the message in the buffer.=
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165 >> 4) Mark a message read if we have seen the start and end of the message
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167 >> 5) Mark a message read if we see the end of the message after seeing the
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168 >> start (rationale moving to the top of the buffer is likely "movement"
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169 >> rather than "reading")
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171 >> 6) Something based on how we leave the message: eg page down could mark
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172 >> all messages which were fully visible read, n (next-open message) could
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173 >> mark the message being left read.=20
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174 >> 7) Similar to 6) but something where read necessarily includes have seen
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175 >> the start of the message.
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177 >> I think all of these are reasonably easy to implement, and I think I
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178 >> know which I would like (something like 5 or 7) but it would be
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179 >> interesting to know if there is any general view or any view on how
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180 >> customisable this should be.
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182 >> Does anyone have any thoughts?
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190 >> On Wed, 18 Sep 2013, Gregor Zattler <telegraph@gmx.net> wrote:
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191 >> > Dear notmuchers,
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193 >> > I had difficulties to reliably remove the "unread" tag from
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194 >> > messages. Mostly I page through threads with the space bar and
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195 >> > all is well. But when the beginning of the thread is already
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196 >> > collapsed and I "jump" in the middle of a message pressing space
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197 >> > bar does not remove the unread tag. It's only removed when
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198 >> > *entering* the message via space bar from the previous message.
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199 >> > So the last press on space bar in the previous message jumps to
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200 >> > the next message and at the same time removes its unread tag.
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202 >> > This seems strange to me. I would say the unread tag should be
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203 >> > removed when leaving the message with the last press on space
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204 >> > bar, indicating that one really paged trough the whole message
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205 >> > instead of only seeing the very beginning of it.
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207 >> > What=E2=80=99s the rationale to this behaviour? Am I missing somethin=
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210 >> > Thanks for your attention, gregor
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