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34 To: notmuch@notmuchmail.org
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35 From: Rainer M Krug <R.M.Krug@gmail.com>
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36 Subject: Re: Better Gmail handling by not using Notmuch tags
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37 Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2012 10:10:23 +0200
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69 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
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72 Just to let you know, on the offlineimap there is also a discussion going on about gmail labels /
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73 folders / sync and it looks as if something is happening on that side:
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75 http://article.gmane.org/gmane.mail.imap.offlineimap.general/5915
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77 Would be nice, if this could work together nicely with notmuch.
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85 On 17/09/12 16:23, Rainer M Krug wrote:
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86 > On 17/09/12 09:55, Rainer M Krug wrote:
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87 >> On 14/09/12 18:27, Mark Anderson wrote:
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88 >>> On Fri, 14 Sep 2012 09:50:01 +0200, Rainer M Krug
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89 >>> <R.M.Krug@gmail.com> wrote: On 13/09/12 17:15, Damien Cassou
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91 >>>>>> On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 5:13 PM, Jeremy Nickurak
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92 >>>>>> <not-much@trk.nickurak.ca> wrote:
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93 >>>>>>> Gmail doesn't have folders, of course, it has labels, which are approximately
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94 >>>>>>> equivalent to notmuch tags. The key difference being that a message can only be in
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95 >>>>>>> one folder, but it can have multiple tags/labels.
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97 >>>>>> Gmail exports its labels as IMAP folders: an email with multiple labels will be
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98 >>>>>> duplicated in multiple folders (one per label). That's why I'm asking if it would be
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99 >>>>>> possible to manupale folders from Notmuch instead of tags.
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102 >>> I don't think there is an easy solution. notmuch uses a maildir and tags. Gmail needs to be
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103 >>> synced to this local maildir earlier, and this is where I think the problem comes in: I
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104 >>> am not aware of any sync tool which maintains the gmail labels, as they are in in the imap
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105 >>> context folders.
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107 >>> I think the only real solution woud be:
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109 >>> Download from gmail -> local: 1) download only the "All Mail" folder 2) implement a tagging
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110 >>> tool which syncs the gmail labels to notmuch tags
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112 >>>> Gmail's IMAP protocol does expose a folder hierarchy which you can use to reverse
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113 >>>> engineer the tag cloud of each email.
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118 >> Wow - I learned a lot about notmuch and how things can be done - thanks for this
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121 > Thinking about it again - wouldn't it be possible, that notmuch automatically is doing the
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122 > "folder --> tag" step (when a corresponding option is set), and automatically adds all the
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123 > folders to the message tags when the same message-id is encountered in different folders?
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128 >>>> Of course this is terrible on performance, as you will have lots of
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130 >> I guess this will be the problem: a typical gmail user, keeps the emails - one has 10GB as
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131 >> storage, so why delete potentially important mails?
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133 >> So I guess this would be a case for e.g. offlineimap.
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135 >>>> copies of mails when you have lots of tags on your mail, but here's a summary of the
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136 >>>> actions you need to coordinate to keep them in sync.
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140 >>>> The benefit of using the mail sync is it uses a widely distributed mail synchronization
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141 >>>> model, but it really tags expensive to synchronize. It gets better if you use the Gmail
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142 >>>> imap extensions that can list the tags without your client requesting a copy of the
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143 >>>> entire email for each tag the mail has. However, Even when you have that, you don't
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144 >>>> have bulletproof mail, because the actions need to be guaranteed to complete before
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145 >>>> synchronization and after synchronization, and any user changes need to be held off, as
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146 >>>> they _will_ be interpreted incorrectly if they take place during the pre-sync, sync,
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147 >>>> post-sync window.
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149 >> It would then definitely be useful to include this in offlineimap - effectively have a
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150 >> "tagging" sync model, where only the "All Mail" folder is synched, and for the tags, a
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151 >> database is kept, which contains the tags for each message-id. This could then be used from
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152 >> notmuch (or other clients) to set the tags of the email.
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154 >> For the moment I guess I will stick with my only-"All Mails"-sync-and-ignore-tags approach.
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162 >>>> You can simplify this if you make guarantees in your usage model. That you will never do
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163 >>>> tagging operations during a pre-, sync, post- cycle, or that you only do
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164 >>>> synchronization one way or the other, instead of full bidirectional sync.
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166 >>>> It's a difficult problem, I look forward to seeing other solutions proposed.
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168 >>>> Thanks, -Mark Anderson
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170 >>> upload local -> gmail 1) upload "All Mail folder 2) assign on gmail the labels
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171 >>> corresponding to the notmuch tags.
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173 >>> The step 1 could be done by any sync tool available for this (offlineimap, ...)
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175 >>> step 2 needs to be developed - no idea how, but it surely would be really usefull, because
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176 >>> then notmuch would even become a perfect tool for gmail backup as well.
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182 >>>> _______________________________________________ notmuch mailing list
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183 >>>> notmuch@notmuchmail.org
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184 >>>> http://notmuchmail.org/mailman/listinfo/notmuch
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