From: Rainer M Krug Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 07:55:13 +0000 (+0200) Subject: Re: Better Gmail handling by not using Notmuch tags X-Git-Url: http://git.tremily.us/gitweb.cgi?a=commitdiff_plain;h=6d768a69060edde29b7081e18505fc7378be4cc0;p=notmuch-archives.git Re: Better Gmail handling by not using Notmuch tags --- diff --git a/8e/8c640f2a48d7adbceb185bb4ea0604068240c8 b/8e/8c640f2a48d7adbceb185bb4ea0604068240c8 new file mode 100644 index 000000000..cefb2f0e1 --- /dev/null +++ b/8e/8c640f2a48d7adbceb185bb4ea0604068240c8 @@ -0,0 +1,174 @@ +Return-Path: +X-Original-To: notmuch@notmuchmail.org +Delivered-To: notmuch@notmuchmail.org +Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by olra.theworths.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4A27431FAF + for ; Mon, 17 Sep 2012 00:55:35 -0700 (PDT) +X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at olra.theworths.org +X-Spam-Flag: NO +X-Spam-Score: 1.202 +X-Spam-Level: * +X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.202 tagged_above=-999 required=5 + tests=[DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, + NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=1.2] autolearn=disabled +Received: from olra.theworths.org ([127.0.0.1]) + by localhost (olra.theworths.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) + with ESMTP id vecPPv5phBPn for ; + Mon, 17 Sep 2012 00:55:35 -0700 (PDT) +Received: from plane.gmane.org (plane.gmane.org [80.91.229.3]) + (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) + (No client certificate requested) + by olra.theworths.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C16B3431FAE + for ; Mon, 17 Sep 2012 00:55:34 -0700 (PDT) +Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) + (envelope-from ) id 1TDWB3-0003jm-1F + for notmuch@notmuchmail.org; Mon, 17 Sep 2012 09:55:33 +0200 +Received: from arn78-1-88-186-171-7.fbx.proxad.net ([88.186.171.7]) + by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) + id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 + for ; Mon, 17 Sep 2012 09:55:33 +0200 +Received: from R.M.Krug by arn78-1-88-186-171-7.fbx.proxad.net with local + (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 + for ; Mon, 17 Sep 2012 09:55:33 +0200 +X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ +To: notmuch@notmuchmail.org +From: Rainer M Krug +Subject: Re: Better Gmail handling by not using Notmuch tags +Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 09:55:13 +0200 +Lines: 103 +Message-ID: <5056D761.9@gmail.com> +References: + + + + <5052E1A9.8060503@gmail.com> <3wda9ws4ljo.fsf@testarossa.amd.com> +Mime-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 +Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org +X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: arn78-1-88-186-171-7.fbx.proxad.net +User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; + rv:16.0) Gecko/20120907 Thunderbird/16.0 +In-Reply-To: <3wda9ws4ljo.fsf@testarossa.amd.com> +X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5a1pre +Cc: public-notmuch-gxuj+Tv9EO5zyzON3hdc1g@plane.gmane.org, + Rainer M Krug ,Jeremy Nickurak +X-BeenThere: notmuch@notmuchmail.org +X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 +Precedence: list +List-Id: "Use and development of the notmuch mail system." + +List-Unsubscribe: , + +List-Archive: +List-Post: +List-Help: +List-Subscribe: , + +X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 07:55:36 -0000 + +-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- +Hash: SHA1 + +On 14/09/12 18:27, Mark Anderson wrote: +> On Fri, 14 Sep 2012 09:50:01 +0200, Rainer M Krug +> wrote: On 13/09/12 17:15, Damien Cassou +> wrote: +>>>> On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 5:13 PM, Jeremy Nickurak +>>>> wrote: +>>>>> Gmail doesn't have folders, of course, it has labels, which are approximately +>>>>> equivalent to notmuch tags. The key difference being that a message can only be in one +>>>>> folder, but it can have multiple tags/labels. +>>>> +>>>> Gmail exports its labels as IMAP folders: an email with multiple labels will be +>>>> duplicated in multiple folders (one per label). That's why I'm asking if it would be +>>>> possible to manupale folders from Notmuch instead of tags. +>>>> +> +> I don't think there is an easy solution. notmuch uses a maildir and tags. Gmail needs to be +> synced to this local maildir earlier, and this is where I think the problem comes in: I am not +> aware of any sync tool which maintains the gmail labels, as they are in in the imap context +> folders. +> +> I think the only real solution woud be: +> +> Download from gmail -> local: 1) download only the "All Mail" folder 2) implement a tagging +> tool which syncs the gmail labels to notmuch tags +> +>> Gmail's IMAP protocol does expose a folder hierarchy which you can use to reverse engineer +>> the tag cloud of each email. +> + +<> + +Wow - I learned a lot about notmuch and how things can be done - thanks for this explanation. + +>> Of course this is terrible on performance, as you will have lots of + +I guess this will be the problem: a typical gmail user, keeps the emails - one has 10GB as +storage, so why delete potentially important mails? + +So I guess this would be a case for e.g. offlineimap. + +>> copies of mails when you have lots of tags on your mail, but here's a summary of the actions +>> you need to coordinate to keep them in sync. + +> + +>> The benefit of using the mail sync is it uses a widely distributed mail synchronization +>> model, but it really tags expensive to synchronize. It gets better if you use the Gmail imap +>> extensions that can list the tags without your client requesting a copy of the entire email +>> for each tag the mail has. However, Even when you have that, you don't have bulletproof +>> mail, because the actions need to be guaranteed to complete before synchronization and after +>> synchronization, and any user changes need to be held off, as they _will_ be interpreted +>> incorrectly if they take place during the pre-sync, sync, post-sync window. + +It would then definitely be useful to include this in offlineimap - effectively have a "tagging" +sync model, where only the "All Mail" folder is synched, and for the tags, a database is kept, +which contains the tags for each message-id. This could then be used from notmuch (or other +clients) to set the tags of the email. + +For the moment I guess I will stick with my only-"All Mails"-sync-and-ignore-tags approach. + +Thanks, + +Rainer + + +> +>> You can simplify this if you make guarantees in your usage model. That you will never do +>> tagging operations during a pre-, sync, post- cycle, or that you only do synchronization one +>> way or the other, instead of full bidirectional sync. +> +>> It's a difficult problem, I look forward to seeing other solutions proposed. +> +>> Thanks, -Mark Anderson +> +> upload local -> gmail 1) upload "All Mail folder 2) assign on gmail the labels corresponding to +> the notmuch tags. +> +> The step 1 could be done by any sync tool available for this (offlineimap, ...) +> +> step 2 needs to be developed - no idea how, but it surely would be really usefull, because +> then notmuch would even become a perfect tool for gmail backup as well. +> +> Cheers, +> +> Rainer +>> +>> _______________________________________________ notmuch mailing list +>> notmuch@notmuchmail.org +>> http://notmuchmail.org/mailman/listinfo/notmuch +>> +> + +-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- +Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) +Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://www.enigmail.net/ + +iEYEARECAAYFAlBW12EACgkQoYgNqgF2egqd6QCeLW0rFHJY0aeazTgbjo9aUphJ +HWAAnjIowdSbIM/UZ7zhCuVHPK4GL1hG +=lXST +-----END PGP SIGNATURE----- +