--- /dev/null
+Return-Path: <gmn-notmuch@m.gmane.org>\r
+X-Original-To: notmuch@notmuchmail.org\r
+Delivered-To: notmuch@notmuchmail.org\r
+Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])\r
+ by olra.theworths.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89113431FB6\r
+ for <notmuch@notmuchmail.org>; Mon, 17 Sep 2012 07:23:38 -0700 (PDT)\r
+X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at olra.theworths.org\r
+X-Spam-Flag: NO\r
+X-Spam-Score: 1.202\r
+X-Spam-Level: *\r
+X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.202 tagged_above=-999 required=5\r
+ tests=[DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001,\r
+ NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=1.2] autolearn=disabled\r
+Received: from olra.theworths.org ([127.0.0.1])\r
+ by localhost (olra.theworths.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)\r
+ with ESMTP id 9XL9t8jKqKiz for <notmuch@notmuchmail.org>;\r
+ Mon, 17 Sep 2012 07:23:37 -0700 (PDT)\r
+Received: from plane.gmane.org (plane.gmane.org [80.91.229.3])\r
+ (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits))\r
+ (No client certificate requested)\r
+ by olra.theworths.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A8881431FAE\r
+ for <notmuch@notmuchmail.org>; Mon, 17 Sep 2012 07:23:37 -0700 (PDT)\r
+Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69)\r
+ (envelope-from <gmn-notmuch@m.gmane.org>) id 1TDcEZ-00069O-MH\r
+ for notmuch@notmuchmail.org; Mon, 17 Sep 2012 16:23:35 +0200\r
+Received: from arn78-1-88-186-171-7.fbx.proxad.net ([88.186.171.7])\r
+ by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian))\r
+ id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00\r
+ for <notmuch@notmuchmail.org>; Mon, 17 Sep 2012 16:23:35 +0200\r
+Received: from R.M.Krug by arn78-1-88-186-171-7.fbx.proxad.net with local\r
+ (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00\r
+ for <notmuch@notmuchmail.org>; Mon, 17 Sep 2012 16:23:35 +0200\r
+X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/\r
+To: notmuch@notmuchmail.org\r
+From: Rainer M Krug <R.M.Krug@gmail.com>\r
+Subject: Re: Better Gmail handling by not using Notmuch tags\r
+Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 16:23:17 +0200\r
+Lines: 114\r
+Message-ID: <50573255.3000009@gmail.com>\r
+References:\r
+ <CA+y5gghe68Sy6BK8FdeGbKEESFD_=2GQ+y+oZSYyt85oQqRuzA@mail.gmail.com>\r
+ <CA+eQo_0nK1rL6DYu2ERqF3U=vZAO_XTpXDtzydHQqBtXqHUOxQ@mail.gmail.com>\r
+ <CA+y5gghnzinnXiabFOEphAuWTJA5Uge9RtGbKu9ur5rP50i_5g@mail.gmail.com>\r
+ <5052E1A9.8060503@gmail.com> <3wda9ws4ljo.fsf@testarossa.amd.com>\r
+ <5056D761.9@gmail.com>\r
+Mime-Version: 1.0\r
+Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1\r
+Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit\r
+X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org\r
+X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: arn78-1-88-186-171-7.fbx.proxad.net\r
+User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686;\r
+ rv:16.0) Gecko/20120907 Thunderbird/16.0\r
+In-Reply-To: <5056D761.9@gmail.com>\r
+X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5a1pre\r
+X-BeenThere: notmuch@notmuchmail.org\r
+X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13\r
+Precedence: list\r
+List-Id: "Use and development of the notmuch mail system."\r
+ <notmuch.notmuchmail.org>\r
+List-Unsubscribe: <http://notmuchmail.org/mailman/options/notmuch>,\r
+ <mailto:notmuch-request@notmuchmail.org?subject=unsubscribe>\r
+List-Archive: <http://notmuchmail.org/pipermail/notmuch>\r
+List-Post: <mailto:notmuch@notmuchmail.org>\r
+List-Help: <mailto:notmuch-request@notmuchmail.org?subject=help>\r
+List-Subscribe: <http://notmuchmail.org/mailman/listinfo/notmuch>,\r
+ <mailto:notmuch-request@notmuchmail.org?subject=subscribe>\r
+X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 14:23:38 -0000\r
+\r
+-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----\r
+Hash: SHA1\r
+\r
+On 17/09/12 09:55, Rainer M Krug wrote:\r
+> On 14/09/12 18:27, Mark Anderson wrote:\r
+>> On Fri, 14 Sep 2012 09:50:01 +0200, Rainer M Krug \r
+>> <R.M.Krug@gmail.com> wrote: On 13/09/12 17:15, Damien Cassou \r
+>> wrote:\r
+>>>>> On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 5:13 PM, Jeremy Nickurak \r
+>>>>> <not-much@trk.nickurak.ca> wrote:\r
+>>>>>> Gmail doesn't have folders, of course, it has labels, which are approximately \r
+>>>>>> equivalent to notmuch tags. The key difference being that a message can only be in\r
+>>>>>> one folder, but it can have multiple tags/labels.\r
+>>>>> \r
+>>>>> Gmail exports its labels as IMAP folders: an email with multiple labels will be \r
+>>>>> duplicated in multiple folders (one per label). That's why I'm asking if it would be \r
+>>>>> possible to manupale folders from Notmuch instead of tags.\r
+>>>>> \r
+> \r
+>> I don't think there is an easy solution. notmuch uses a maildir and tags. Gmail needs to be \r
+>> synced to this local maildir earlier, and this is where I think the problem comes in: I am\r
+>> not aware of any sync tool which maintains the gmail labels, as they are in in the imap\r
+>> context folders.\r
+> \r
+>> I think the only real solution woud be:\r
+> \r
+>> Download from gmail -> local: 1) download only the "All Mail" folder 2) implement a tagging \r
+>> tool which syncs the gmail labels to notmuch tags\r
+> \r
+>>> Gmail's IMAP protocol does expose a folder hierarchy which you can use to reverse engineer \r
+>>> the tag cloud of each email.\r
+> \r
+> \r
+> <<SNIP a lot>>\r
+> \r
+> Wow - I learned a lot about notmuch and how things can be done - thanks for this explanation.\r
+\r
+Thinking about it again - wouldn't it be possible, that notmuch automatically is doing the "folder\r
+- --> tag" step (when a corresponding option is set), and automatically adds all the folders to the\r
+message tags when the same message-id is encountered in different folders?\r
+\r
+Rainer\r
+\r
+> \r
+>>> Of course this is terrible on performance, as you will have lots of\r
+> \r
+> I guess this will be the problem: a typical gmail user, keeps the emails - one has 10GB as \r
+> storage, so why delete potentially important mails?\r
+> \r
+> So I guess this would be a case for e.g. offlineimap.\r
+> \r
+>>> copies of mails when you have lots of tags on your mail, but here's a summary of the\r
+>>> actions you need to coordinate to keep them in sync.\r
+> \r
+> <SNIP>>\r
+> \r
+>>> The benefit of using the mail sync is it uses a widely distributed mail synchronization \r
+>>> model, but it really tags expensive to synchronize. It gets better if you use the Gmail\r
+>>> imap extensions that can list the tags without your client requesting a copy of the entire\r
+>>> email for each tag the mail has. However, Even when you have that, you don't have\r
+>>> bulletproof mail, because the actions need to be guaranteed to complete before\r
+>>> synchronization and after synchronization, and any user changes need to be held off, as\r
+>>> they _will_ be interpreted incorrectly if they take place during the pre-sync, sync,\r
+>>> post-sync window.\r
+> \r
+> It would then definitely be useful to include this in offlineimap - effectively have a\r
+> "tagging" sync model, where only the "All Mail" folder is synched, and for the tags, a database\r
+> is kept, which contains the tags for each message-id. This could then be used from notmuch (or\r
+> other clients) to set the tags of the email.\r
+> \r
+> For the moment I guess I will stick with my only-"All Mails"-sync-and-ignore-tags approach.\r
+> \r
+> Thanks,\r
+> \r
+> Rainer\r
+> \r
+> \r
+> \r
+>>> You can simplify this if you make guarantees in your usage model. That you will never do \r
+>>> tagging operations during a pre-, sync, post- cycle, or that you only do synchronization\r
+>>> one way or the other, instead of full bidirectional sync.\r
+> \r
+>>> It's a difficult problem, I look forward to seeing other solutions proposed.\r
+> \r
+>>> Thanks, -Mark Anderson\r
+> \r
+>> upload local -> gmail 1) upload "All Mail folder 2) assign on gmail the labels corresponding\r
+>> to the notmuch tags.\r
+> \r
+>> The step 1 could be done by any sync tool available for this (offlineimap, ...)\r
+> \r
+>> step 2 needs to be developed - no idea how, but it surely would be really usefull, because \r
+>> then notmuch would even become a perfect tool for gmail backup as well.\r
+> \r
+>> Cheers,\r
+> \r
+>> Rainer\r
+>>> \r
+>>> _______________________________________________ notmuch mailing list \r
+>>> notmuch@notmuchmail.org \r
+>>> http://notmuchmail.org/mailman/listinfo/notmuch\r
+>>> \r
+> \r
+> \r
+> \r
+\r
+-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----\r
+Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux)\r
+Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://www.enigmail.net/\r
+\r
+iEYEARECAAYFAlBXMlQACgkQoYgNqgF2ego59QCgg7JO0GY6HtgMmQB1VfD9pFNW\r
+2l8An1v/ba05y6bq7ovZP4S/KSDedVBh\r
+=d8Ga\r
+-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----\r
+\r
projects / notmuch-archives.git / commitdiff