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To: Patrick Gerken <notmuch@patrick-gerken.de>, 
From: Justus Winter <4winter@informatik.uni-hamburg.de>
In-Reply-To: <20130522100830.30810.43576@mini>
References: <20130520141459.30749.80963@mini> <87zjvp90xr.fsf@zancas.localnet>
	<20130521125402.9218.90558@thinkbox.jade-hamburg.de>
	<20130522100830.30810.43576@mini>
Message-ID: <20130522165718.6823.71519@thinkbox.jade-hamburg.de>
User-Agent: alot/0.3.4
Subject: Re: Python Bindings missing on PyPI
Date: Wed, 22 May 2013 18:57:18 +0200
Cc: , notmuch mailing list <notmuch@notmuchmail.org>
Precedence: list

Quoting Patrick Gerken (2013-05-22 12:08:30)
> Quoting Justus Winter (2013-05-21 14:54:02)
> > Hi :)
> > =

> > Quoting David Bremner (2013-05-20 16:32:32)
> > > Patrick Gerken <notmuch@patrick-gerken.de> writes:
> > I would not object to that, but David has a point here. If the version
> > you get from pypi is newer than your libnotmuch, you will get errors
> > *at runtime*.
> =

> That is a point I did not consider much, I admit.
> =

> > Also I just looked at http://oswatershed.org/pkg/notmuch and
> > http://oswatershed.org/pkg/python-notmuch . It looks like every
> > distribution that is shipping libnotmuch packages also ships the
> > python bindings. So everyone who got libnotmuch from their
> > distribution can also obtain the appropriate bindings. And everyone
> > who compiled notmuch also has the bindings. I'm just not sure what's
> > to gain here.
> =

> That is only partially true and this is entirely a python problem.
> =

> As a Python Developer I am forced to work in virtualenv, that isolate
> the python running in there from system installed python packages.
> That is necessary, because I cannot install two different versions
> of the same package in python. Something that is essential when
> working on multiple projects.
> =

> I tend to believe that virtualenv is a tool for developers and hosters,
> but not for end users. I'd claim that it is their responsibility
> to ensure the right version of libnotmuch.
> Actually, I i were to deploy a python project with notmuch, I'd certainly
> ensure that my deployment builds libnotmuch from source, something that
> is not uncommon in the Plone world, which sets up projects with zc.buildo=
ut.
> =

> I'd love to hack on alot and afew, but I cannot install them safely on my
> machines right now, they run in a little virtual machine just because of =
it :-(

Wouldn't it be better to install libnotmuch and the wrapper to this
virtualenv so you make sure they match? I haven't used virtualenv, but
searching the web turned up
http://codersbuffet.blogspot.de/2009/09/wxpython-in-virtualenv.html
. He uses a post activate hook to set the LD_LIBRARY_PATH
variable. Maybe there's an even better way to do that now, seeing that
his post is from 2009.

> Based on my claim that pypi installations aren't usually done by end user=
s,
> does that reduce your reservations sufficiently to put the bindings on py=
pi?

I don't have any reservations about anyone creating and maintaining an
entry on pypi for notmuch. So if having an pypi entry helps you and
potentially others as well, go ahead :)

I'm concerned about potential API issues that won't crop up until
someone runs some code. And someone would have to update and test the
pypi entry, and that someone would have to be someone other than me
since I've never used virtualenv or any method of deploying python
software like pip or easy_install. I tend to install dependencies
manually instead, and most of the time I don't have to do anything
since most python software I use is usually packaged in Debian.

Cheers,
Justus