Return-Path: X-Original-To: notmuch@notmuchmail.org Delivered-To: notmuch@notmuchmail.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by olra.theworths.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21210431FAF for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 23:57:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at olra.theworths.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7] autolearn=disabled Received: from olra.theworths.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (olra.theworths.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cfyHJiruYHlt for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 23:57:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qg0-f44.google.com (mail-qg0-f44.google.com [209.85.192.44]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by olra.theworths.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 89EF1431FAE for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 23:57:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qg0-f44.google.com with SMTP id f51so4177176qge.3 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 23:57:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=bqs7RpSw4T/jZaRqde4Q+ZnDMqzMYWouvanyODghIHQ=; b=SH3XN7UZtLXTHZGzPyrja8W79mdxkdQxUk1GdKEPkMS5BzJxNpfr8jqw+QDhm65L3j LdesHP4GnJZ5u0IH2y+0QV6Nq0E9jl4btob55FNuZ7WrN7m2/16WGYcNAFe0DgHmUxo4 gQyceNWbB7VL5+JwAYjK+uQfRC2pcrA405wdcFBuD6Dz3tirDDnNt+YkKJ6yoAzBJL9t wa5v+NF0tZOCfXiEJVSQeI7xXQJWMydXRx+1PJp6PioCVb/73ZSZ/1jj+Y06lX5d9wDO rR1/AgsHhapCun/IqB9epszmzgrkDFvPmLvq6DWhzP6AC16+oPjtclKSVVupMfl4MEPP UDlA== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmbhPmdvmHEI1JoECLSQ1OqSgnlGyjHpraZdrZV5u3ipXaKdTmkXdQxilJlP2MBE7Mtu0Js MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.224.46.6 with SMTP id h6mr29733002qaf.45.1411455428701; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 23:57:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.96.174.104 with HTTP; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 23:57:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.96.174.104 with HTTP; Mon, 22 Sep 2014 23:57:08 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <87k34vackm.fsf@drake.dyndns.org> References: <1396800683-9164-1-git-send-email-eg@gaute.vetsj.com> <87fviiiuzn.fsf@maritornes.cs.unb.ca> <20140801185505.GS13893@mit.edu> <1407313144-astroid-0-vyhth1tcrd-3835@strange> <1411386960-astroid-2-k1e726ut3f-2518@strange> <87k34vackm.fsf@drake.dyndns.org> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 08:57:08 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [PATCH] Add configurable changed tag to messages that have been changed on disk From: Gaute Hope To: Austin Clements Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c35a9c71cb080503b613b8 Cc: notmuch X-BeenThere: notmuch@notmuchmail.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: "Use and development of the notmuch mail system." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 06:57:26 -0000 --001a11c35a9c71cb080503b613b8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 22. sep. 2014 17:40 skrev "Austin Clements" f=C3=B8lgende: > > On Mon, 22 Sep 2014, Gaute Hope wrote: > > Excerpts from Gaute Hope's message of August 6, 2014 10:29: > >> Austin Clements wrote on Fri, 01 Aug 2014 14:55:05 -0400: > >>> I have a prototype implementation of message modification times on my > >>> lastmod-v1 branch at > >>> > >>> https://github.com/aclements/notmuch/tree/lastmod-v1 > >>> > >>> It builds on my database features series that's currently awaiting > >>> review [1]. > >>> > >>> The series uses a monotonic revision number, rather than wall-clock > >>> time, for reasons related to Xapian's concurrent control and detailed > >>> in the main commit's commit message. The implementation isn't quite > >>> useful from the CLI yet because I haven't added any way to query the > >>> database's current revision number. (I'm still thinking about how I > >>> want to do this, since search/show don't have a good way to deliver > >>> "additional" information right now. I might just add the last > >>> modification for each individual message/max of all messages in a > >>> thread, similar to what Thomas Jost's patch did long ago.) > >>> > >>> [1] id:1406859003-11561-1-git-send-email-amdragon@mit.edu > > > >> this should allow me to do what I wish to accomplish. The message > >> deletion is still a problem though, I can see two options at the moment: > > > > Hi list, > > > > While exploring the possibility of syncing maildir/X-keywords with tags > > I had some thoughts about lastmod and message modification: > > > > As briefly discussed on #notmuch, I noticed that it seems that 'notmuch > > new' does not detect that a message source has been changed, unless the > > file is also re-named. > > > > This means that for instance if the X-Keywords fields have been updated > > in a message (from GMail with offlineimap, synclabels =3D yes) the last= mod > > field will remain unchanged, and a source modification will be > > undetectable to a client program using this value. > > > > Would it not make sense that if a message has a more recent mtime than > > at index time it is re-indexed? > > This has the potential to make notmuch new substantially more expensive. > Currently, if there are no changes, it only has to stat each directory > in your maildir (in fact, some restructuring of new would let us > eliminate almost all database access during a no-op notmuch new as > well). Checking for changes to individual messages would require > stat'ing every single message file as well as accessing the database to > check the paths and mtimes of every message, increasing the number of > stat calls and disk accesses by several orders of magnitude. > > It may be that this is fast enough that it's okay, but it would be good > to gather some evidence first. That includes hot and cold caches, and > maildir over NFS. > > With respect to X-Keywords specifically, note that it's a fairly basic > design decision that notmuch never modifies message files. This gives > us strong robustness guarantees we would be loathe to part with. > > It has puzzled me ever since offlineimap added X-Keywords why they > didn't just translate these keywords into folders and create hard links > of message files. Anything could interact smoothly with that. The information follows the message file. But, yeah, working directly on the message source is hairy. Anyway, email is as mess in general anyway. I consider it user-input. > > > Also, for the lastmod branch I would wish for a notmuch_message_touch() > > method where the lastmod time is updated to the last. As well as a > > notmuch_database_reindex_message () - possibly defined/documented > > behaviour for notmuch_database_add_message () when the filename is > > already added (in which case I would expect notmuch to re-index the > > message). > > What's the use case for these? If you make a change to the message source and want it to be reindexed. Say, edited a draft or changed a header field. I am not asking that notmuch modifies the message source. For _touch, if without making an actual change to the message you wish to indicate that it has been updated or synced at the current time. For instance after an reindex that did not make any actual change. Perhaps not strictly necessary. Cheers, Gaute --001a11c35a9c71cb080503b613b8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


22. sep. 2014 17:40 skrev "Austin Clements" <aclements@csail.mit.edu> f=C3=B8lgende: >
> On Mon, 22 Sep 2014, Gaute Hope <eg@gaute.vetsj.com> wrote:
> > Excerpts from Gaute Hope's message of August 6, 2014 10:29: > >> Austin Clements <amdra= gon@MIT.EDU> wrote on Fri, 01 Aug 2014 14:55:05 -0400:
> >>> I have a prototype implementation of message modification= times on my
> >>> lastmod-v1 branch at
> >>>
> >>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0https://github.com/aclements/notmuch/tree/lastmod-v1
> >>>
> >>> It builds on my database features series that's curre= ntly awaiting
> >>> review [1].
> >>>
> >>> The series uses a monotonic revision number, rather than = wall-clock
> >>> time, for reasons related to Xapian's concurrent cont= rol and detailed
> >>> in the main commit's commit message.=C2=A0 The implem= entation isn't quite
> >>> useful from the CLI yet because I haven't added any w= ay to query the
> >>> database's current revision number.=C2=A0 (I'm st= ill thinking about how I
> >>> want to do this, since search/show don't have a good = way to deliver
> >>> "additional" information right now.=C2=A0 I mig= ht just add the last
> >>> modification for each individual message/max of all messa= ges in a
> >>> thread, similar to what Thomas Jost's patch did long = ago.)
> >>>
> >>> [1] id:1406859003-11561-1-git-send-email-amdragon@mit.edu=
> >
> >> this should allow me to do what I wish to accomplish. The mes= sage
> >> deletion is still a problem though, I can see two options at = the moment:
> >
> > Hi list,
> >
> > While exploring the possibility of syncing maildir/X-keywords wit= h tags
> > I had some thoughts about lastmod and message modification:
> >
> > As briefly discussed on #notmuch, I noticed that it seems that &#= 39;notmuch
> > new' does not detect that a message source has been changed, = unless the
> > file is also re-named.
> >
> > This means that for instance if the X-Keywords fields have been u= pdated
> > in a message (from GMail with offlineimap, synclabels =3D yes) th= e lastmod
> > field will remain unchanged, and a source modification will be > > undetectable to a client program using this value.
> >
> > Would it not make sense that if a message has a more recent mtime= than
> > at index time it is re-indexed?
>
> This has the potential to make notmuch new substantially more expensiv= e.
> Currently, if there are no changes, it only has to stat each directory=
> in your maildir (in fact, some restructuring of new would let us
> eliminate almost all database access during a no-op notmuch new as
> well).=C2=A0 Checking for changes to individual messages would require=
> stat'ing every single message file as well as accessing the databa= se to
> check the paths and mtimes of every message, increasing the number of<= br> > stat calls and disk accesses by several orders of magnitude.
>
> It may be that this is fast enough that it's okay, but it would be= good
> to gather some evidence first.=C2=A0 That includes hot and cold caches= , and
> maildir over NFS.
>
> With respect to X-Keywords specifically, note that it's a fairly b= asic
> design decision that notmuch never modifies message files.=C2=A0 This = gives
> us strong robustness guarantees we would be loathe to part with.
>
> It has puzzled me ever since offlineimap added X-Keywords why they
> didn't just translate these keywords into folders and create hard = links
> of message files.=C2=A0 Anything could interact smoothly with that.

The information follows the message file. But, yeah, working= directly on the message source is hairy. Anyway, email is as mess in gener= al anyway. I consider it user-input.

>
> > Also, for the lastmod branch I would wish for a notmuch_message_t= ouch()
> > method where the lastmod time is updated to the last. As well as = a
> > notmuch_database_reindex_message () - possibly defined/documented=
> > behaviour for notmuch_database_add_message () when the filename i= s
> > already added (in which case I would expect notmuch to re-index t= he
> > message).
>
> What's the use case for these?

If you make a change to the message source and want it to be= reindexed. Say, edited a draft or changed a header field. I am not asking = that notmuch modifies the message source.

For _touch, if without making an actual change to the messag= e you wish to indicate that it has been updated or synced at the current ti= me. For instance after an reindex that did not make any actual change. Perh= aps not strictly necessary.

Cheers, Gaute

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