From feaa57fd8b4ab94e58a8bb6bd9aed2df6acd7d0b Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: Jani Nikula Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2013 10:01:19 +0100 Subject: [PATCH] Re: [PATCH WIP v2 0/5] emacs: show: redesign unread/read logic --- a7/4150a998c74085accf34754416e9c4fadb3a06 | 144 ++++++++++++++++++++++ 1 file changed, 144 insertions(+) create mode 100644 a7/4150a998c74085accf34754416e9c4fadb3a06 diff --git a/a7/4150a998c74085accf34754416e9c4fadb3a06 b/a7/4150a998c74085accf34754416e9c4fadb3a06 new file mode 100644 index 000000000..e110158d9 --- /dev/null +++ b/a7/4150a998c74085accf34754416e9c4fadb3a06 @@ -0,0 +1,144 @@ +Return-Path: +X-Original-To: notmuch@notmuchmail.org +Delivered-To: notmuch@notmuchmail.org +Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) + by olra.theworths.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95760431FAF + for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2013 01:01:44 -0800 (PST) +X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at olra.theworths.org +X-Spam-Flag: NO +X-Spam-Score: -0.7 +X-Spam-Level: +X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 + tests=[RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7] autolearn=disabled +Received: from olra.theworths.org ([127.0.0.1]) + by localhost (olra.theworths.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) + with ESMTP id FCSty5ggHqUt for ; + Wed, 4 Dec 2013 01:01:39 -0800 (PST) +Received: from mail-qc0-f178.google.com (mail-qc0-f178.google.com + [209.85.216.178]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) + (No client certificate requested) + by olra.theworths.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C5F9E431FAE + for ; Wed, 4 Dec 2013 01:01:39 -0800 (PST) +Received: by mail-qc0-f178.google.com with SMTP id i17so3268342qcy.9 + for ; Wed, 04 Dec 2013 01:01:38 -0800 (PST) +X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; + d=1e100.net; s=20130820; + h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:references + :user-agent:date:message-id:mime-version:content-type; + bh=CpAhOFE6pk8oVkUU2EoeHeschw9EP0Pt+vGdA7dmZ60=; + b=G/cbwPnX8tEV0QjAhhNNj8o8r9p5WCt/0fdluQ36FjlL3wk/rPP1biuRrerydBJbWR + Jfg4Z8uSABKMnjg6lHAxwysqpMz5VufH0g/FfHmQbz4tr5joCofNJBAA5LSoDftNNtRf + c1ijefOBlgLdu5a22aPgORDvLXgZC+SLGczItNe8zIfZQPa8zCmDMFUEf+z07GmjSFK2 + a0CGOnhsZ1y34onmvOfTwO7gYYFYcj9XKjOD9gtIBK/qBYrOG4MGfvp7q4n83kPctyEr + HiWTU2QGi7/Yxy+m01f0tqAcmeYLAVU6x6OWxY/EUTwDliKq02hzjEujqP8H5Ha4L6XD + Ozrw== +X-Gm-Message-State: + ALoCoQl9WbyB+tzXhBYz5snfTGpSkGwezFQqzlcE2tyJ2oM2dWuLhXifYlFgheP45aqDOYJkJlGt +X-Received: by 10.224.127.74 with SMTP id f10mr98428359qas.56.1386147698116; + Wed, 04 Dec 2013 01:01:38 -0800 (PST) +Received: from localhost ([2001:4b98:dc0:43:216:3eff:fe1b:25f3]) + by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id hb2sm15867812qeb.6.2013.12.04.01.01.37 + for + (version=TLSv1.1 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); + Wed, 04 Dec 2013 01:01:37 -0800 (PST) +From: Jani Nikula +To: Mark Walters , notmuch@notmuchmail.org +Subject: Re: [PATCH WIP v2 0/5] emacs: show: redesign unread/read logic +In-Reply-To: <1385892147-16994-1-git-send-email-markwalters1009@gmail.com> +References: <1385892147-16994-1-git-send-email-markwalters1009@gmail.com> +User-Agent: Notmuch/0.17~rc2+4~gd7b0a0a (http://notmuchmail.org) Emacs/23.2.1 + (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) +Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2013 10:01:19 +0100 +Message-ID: <8761r5at28.fsf@nikula.org> +MIME-Version: 1.0 +Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii +X-BeenThere: notmuch@notmuchmail.org +X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 +Precedence: list +List-Id: "Use and development of the notmuch mail system." + +List-Unsubscribe: , + +List-Archive: +List-Post: +List-Help: +List-Subscribe: , + +X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2013 09:01:44 -0000 + +On Sun, 01 Dec 2013, Mark Walters wrote: +> This is further wip of the message at +> id:1385285551-5158-1-git-send-email-markwalters1009@gmail.com +> see there for some discussion of the design. +> +> This series is still definitely wip: one reason for posting is so +> people can play with different strategies for marking read +> easily. (As WIP tree's unread handling is broken and the tests need updating.) +> +> The series consists of three parts: the first 4 patches add the notion +> of seen: this means the user has seen the message but the message has +> typically not been marked read yet. The seen messages are marked read +> when the user quits the show buffer unless the user quits with +> prefix-arg quit. In all cases an informative message is shown. +> +> The fifth patch adds a psot-command-hook stub for updating the seen +> status. This seems a natural place to do the update as it means +> however the user navugates around the buffer (eg next-message or +> page-down etc) the update gets done. +> +> This is intended to be an easy place for other people to try out their +> own mark read strategies. +> +> The final patch implements something pretty close to what I would like +> for marking seen/read. A message is deemed seen provided the user has +> seen the top of the message, and has seen either the bottom of the +> message or a point at least some customisable number of lines into the +> message. The customisable number of lines can either be a fixed number +> e.g. 20, or a number depending on the height of the current window +> e.g. the default is 3/4 of the window height. +> +> The idea is a message seen if the user has seen the entire message, or +> enough of it they have to have noticed it. The figure of 3/4 also +> means that the notmuch commands like next-message which place the top +> of the message at the top of the window automatically mark the message +> seen as either the whole message or at least one window full must be +> visible. +> +> I would be very grateful for any comments on whether this behaves as +> people would expect, what they would want instead etc + +Hi Mark, thanks for working on this. + +I had tons of mail reading to catch up, so this was a good opportunity +to try the patches. I'll try to be objective and constructive next, but +up front, just so there's no doubt: I don't like it. + +I think my issues boil down to the series containing two pretty +significant changes at once: how to decide if a message was read and +when to apply the tag changes to reflect that. + +I found it confusing that messages were not being tagged -unread while I +was viewing the thread. I found it even more confusing to get a message +"Marked N messages read" on quitting show view with no feedback on +*which* messages were read, and often the N didn't feel right +either. And I think that's the problem: I wanted to see the new +heuristics on deciding whether a message was read in action, but I got +zero immediate feedback on it! + +My suggestion is to drop the delay in tag changes for now, and focus on +the part that decides whether a message was read or not. Do the tag +changes immediately when you consider a message "seen". I think this way +we get a better feel of how well the heuristics really work, and we can +make it just right. I think that's the bug in we currently have in +notmuch, and delaying the tag changes doesn't contribute to fixing +it. Indeed I think the delay makes it *harder* to fix. + +Afterwards, we could add the delayed tag changes (although hopefully as +an option) if desired. And keeping that in mind, AFAICT you wouldn't +need to rework your patches all that much. + +How does that sound? + + +BR, +Jani. -- 2.26.2